To view all posts related to the Liveops Lawsuit click here.
A few days ago, I made a post on how Liveops, one of the largest known work at home companies, is being sued by two of it's agents. In one day, my blog received more hits that I have seen the whole month. At the same time, I have noticed that people have had a few misconceptions when reading my post, so I want to clarify it now.
Though I side with Liveops and hope that they win, there is an extremely fine line between an independent contractor and an employee. The IRS uses three categories to determine the difference: Type of Relationship, Behavioral Control, and Financial Control. Liveops could be on either side of the fence with these. For example, Liveops does control how its agents behave. An agent can't say random things to a customer, scripts must be followed, sometimes verbatim. Secondly, as I said in my last post, signing a contract saying that you understand that you are only an Independent Contractor does NOT always mean that you are one. For example, in 1996, someone filed a class action lawsuit against Microsoft for almost the exact same reason. Microsoft had been hiring people as independent contractors who had to sign a contract saying that they were such. The U.S Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit heard the case. One of the main arguments was that people had their jobs defined by Microsoft, and worked for long periods of time (usually years.) Many agents at Liveops have been doing the exact same thing. In that case, Microsoft settled before a decision was reached, for almost $100 million dollars! Similar things have happened to Time Warner and other large companies.
So basically, it is up to the judge to decide on this one, and he could go either way. If Liveops loses the case, they might have to change all of its agents to employees, and as I said in my last post, most of them probably will not want a set pay, as it could be a lot less than what is made now. This could be a landmark case for all call order work at home companies, so let's hope for the best!
Want more info to decide for yourself? Check out some of the links below!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permatemp
http://www.contingentlaw.com/Costly_legal_myths_in_contract.htm
http://jobsearchtech.about.com/od/laborlaws/l/aa121800.htm
http://jobsearchtech.about.com/od/laborlaws/l/aa121800_2.htm
http://www.businesstaxrecovery.com/Independent_contractor_employee
http://www.vault.com/nr/newsmain.jsp?nr_page=3&ch_id=400&article_id=52996&cat_id=1088
Also, please subscribe to my blog to receive updated info about this and work at home tips in general. I hate spam just as much as you, and will never send you any. Thanks!
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47 comments:
I think its about time Live Ops does get sued. The DO dictate to there agents when and how they can work...or you get locked out the schedule.
For example. a year ago they started with the pizzahut line telling agents they HAD too work so many blocks on the weekend. If they did not they were denied access to the weekday work schedule. Too me that is an employer dicatating work parameters to their EMPLOYEES!
Te next example is allowing pizzahut agents to sign up and get certified for direct response. But only allow them access to the special color free blocks. those that they feel they need as many agents as they can get on the phones. However blocking them from access to the full direct response schedule. Then promising these agents that at some point in the future they can get access to the full schedule.
Any time you start telling your contractors all these restrictions limitations and other things LO has been doing for over a year now...you are essentially treating people as employee.
They reduced the time an employee could be dorment and not working from 60 to 42 days..and did not even warn agents of the change. They just locked those people out. Then when they tried to reactivate LO decided if they wanted them back working again....no explaination. If you were lucky you got reactivated. If you were unlucky you go told to re-apply.
I have been told for this same reason is why west went to employees instead of contractor status. LO needs to learn one how to make a rule...spell it out and then follow it. Now change the rules to suite you as you go along. There contracts are VERY vague leaving the so called contractor with very little recourse.
They have chronic pay issues. Lo does fix the problems but the end result is that you can wait one to two pay periods to see that fix. Giving LO an additional 15-45 days to use your earned money.
If all else I hope these agents win their case for the simple reason to teach LO how to treat there agents and to at least follow there OWN rules.
I really have to disagree with the above comment. LO is a great company that allows its agents to work at home and plan their own schedule. Maybe your line is different, but my lines allow me to pick and choose the times I want to work.
Why don't you try working at a regular pizza restaurant rather than taking orders at home and see if you like that any better??
No wonder American companies out source jobs overseas. People in other countries love the work and the companies don't have to worry about all these crazy lawsuits. The only people that get rich from these suits are the lawyers.
Maybe you didn't read your postboxes, but Liveops definitely told agents about the change from 60 to 42 days. If you like all the rules and regulations of regular companies maybe work at home jobs aren't for you. These people are ruining WAHJ for all of us. This lawsuit may result in changes at Liveops, and change is not always a good thing. The grass is always greener on the other side.
I work for LO. I try very hard to be realistic when I read these things. In my state, there really isn't any such thing as an independent contractor. General contractors here have to carry work comp insurance for their contractors, for example!! While I am NOT in GA, I believe LO could lose based on the definitions provided that were set forth to determine what an independent contractor is.
I love my job, but LO should have been more careful with all of this... They shouldn't have left any room in their contract for misinterpretation.
I agree with the first comment, but only the parts I know of. I am one that agrees that LiveOps crossed the line when they said PH had to work certain blocks or would be locked out of the schedule during the week, and only allowed access to peak blocks. When I got hired on there, nowhere in my contract was that stated. Would it have made a difference? Probably not, I would have still taken my job, but I know some other people in other circumstances that this did greatly affect.
I was also one that was given DR and was only allowed to work "free" blocks. Since then, I have been allowed full schedule access. But I agree, I think for us to be independant contractors, they dictate to us too much what we "HAVE" to work.
Im not saying that it would be better one way or the other, Independant Contractor or employee. All I think is LiveOps should do the right thing and let us work like is decribed in our contract, and not lock us out from hours and let us be INDEPENDANT contractors, or pay us like employees, and consider us employees.
The comment about it was sent in a postbox that the time frame was changing. Well they must have sent it the day they changed it. because one day I was a contractor and the next day I was one of those locked out. my AF was useless and told me nothing but lies. call this place, talk to this person and send e-mails here. in the end it was clear that live ops no longer wanted me as a contracor. which the very unprofessional way they treated me was ok with me because i no longer wanted to be a contractor for them I have since then moved on to a new company and I am far happier. I say I have to support those ladies suing. I saw many things that made me cringe while working for them. I began to work less and less. The pay was NOT what its all cracked up to be. As far as pizzahut is concerned..maybe you need to talk to some of the pizzahut stores that have pulled out of the national call center for due to high rate of customer complaints. I know NONE of the stores in my area or for a 100 mile radius for that matter participate in the national call center.
I work for liveops and I LOVE IT. I'm in control of my hrs. If I don't feel well or just don't want to work I can give up those hrs and if no one else takes it. then I accept the responsibility that comes with that. Namely my call volume will go down. There are standards of operation that you must adhere to. LO must have these standards to make the people we take calls happy AND to satisfied Federal LAW. LO does not make these rules out of hand. They have federal law to comply with.
Personally I like the guidelines. They give me a guideline to go by and do my job by. I understand this and accept it.
NOW to those that are sueing liveops in hopes of milking some money from them. Well personally I think they where probley not good at taking calls and such and are bummed. They decided to sue because they are the type of people who want to have ALOT of pay for LITTLE work. Which is not how it works. And therefor they got fed up with not getting things handed to them and got miffed. Oh boo hoo.
Ya do the work ya get the pay. Plain and simple.
I take pride in working at liveops and alot of people do.
Only thing I can say to these ladies is just because you couldn't do the job please don't ruin it for everyone else.
Thank you.
As far as LO....it is AWESOME. If the people working PH have issues...opt out. Nobody is forcing them to work... As I understand, some were hired to do PH and then given limited access to DR. That really does makes sense and is even generous of LO to make sure there are so many agents NOBODY makes any money. It doesn't sound as though they HAD full access and then got it taken away...only that certain PH criterion had to be met in order to have access to DR. If that's what the deal is...either take it or leave it. If agents were hired strictly for PH, there must have been a reason (need) for that.
I also work LO and LOVE, LOVE, LOVE IT!!!! NOBODY, I repeat, NOBODY, tells me when I have to work. I what hours work best for me and if I need to give them up I am able to do so. LO expects you to show up and do the work to make sure they have enough agents to staff their phone lines. Like previous poster said, if you can't get anyone to cover your shift and you don't show up, you suffer the consequences, meaning your attendance performance lowers and you get lower call volume until you get that performance back up. I actually think they have a higher number of being not pulling a "no call no show" because of this because people want to make sure they have call volume.
As for the PH schedule issue--no one was forcing anyone to work. If you weren't willing to work a few peak hours when they needed you most, then you suffered the consequences. Seriously---what's a few hours on the weekend anyway to help out when there's tons of call volume? I usually put in at least 8 hours each weekend.
Bottom line is this is not a get rich quick business. You get what you put into it and if you're going to put little to no effort into it then you're going to get little return.
correction to my last post:
generous of LO to make sure there are NOT too many agents that nobody makes any money.....
liveops is an ok company but if u cannot not rip customers off and sell a bunch of funky magazines and incentives you dont get calls and yes they hire too many agents and now we are in a slow season for those who want to suck bu**. Just think about sitting at your computer for 2 dollar an hour and you are locked in to a schedule if you cannot release your commit. I was in sales pro work nights and changed to days. Since ITV did not have an 800 customer service number all i got was cs calls one day I got a pb stating I was not longer a sales pro after two years. I need to sue ITV I am with the people who are suing why do u think west changed its pay rate they may have something hummmmmm
How do I file a lawsuit against them.
I think more live op employees should make this a class action lawsuit
excuse independent contractors ..West changed its rules for some reason wake up
As an independant contractor I agreed to work with LiveOps answering their calls. I contracted to answer those calls using the script they provided to me and I agreed to live with their rules. I completely understood that if I was not happy with the company, their rules or any other part of this contract I had the option to take my services elsewhere, no questions asked! If I am, at any time, unhappy in my work I am free to go contract with another company. If I want to be an employee, I can research and find companies out there that are willing to give me employee status, I however choose NOT to do this. I choose to set my own hours, to have the ability to not show up for work without penalty if my son gets sick. I have the flexibility to say no, I do not want to work this weekend because my son has a soccer game or I simply want a vacation. If I do not show up for a time that I agreed to work, yes, it is frowned upon and I will loose my schedule adherance percentage. If I do that too many times, LiveOps will send me fewer calls, however I can't blame them, I knew from the beginning that this is how it is and if I don't like it, again, I can go else where. The people creating this lawsuit and the people supporting it need to just realize that they do have the option to leave at anytime and there are PLENTY of satisfied agents who would willingly take the calls from you. We will gladly work under the conditions that we ALL agreed to when we signed that contract! If the rules are changed, there are messages and notices sent out, and if we choose not to contract to the new rules, we are then deactivated. It's always your choice! I support ZLiveOps 100% and I hope, no matter what, that they continue to offer contracts to the agents who want them and continue to be the top notch company they are!
A few bad apples aren't going to knock the wheels off of LO's big wagon! I say, follow the posts throughout these agents stay at LO's and use it accordingly! I mean, I would assume they lost their position with LO for some sort of violation and now are trying to wreck the whole wagon over a few lies on their part. I think LO knows what evidence they can use and what they shouldn't use. It's all in representation at this point.
To everyone who is complaining about LiveOps
I just graduated with my BS in Business Administration and therefore, I am looking at this from the business side with a certain amount of common sense.
Alright, just imagine that you hire several IC’s for your landscaping projects and several IC’s for a interior design venture. Now all of a sudden the landscaping IC’s complain that it is too cold outside and they want to participate in the interior design. Would you allow them full access to your building? Or would you restrict them to what they could do? Another factor to contemplate is if the contractors only want to do minimum work and do not even show up for work for 42 days. Would you let them get away with it? In addition, you have your top performers IC’s and you have several IC’s who do an OK job. Who would you prefer?
Would you let certain IC’s ruin your house and lawns because they do not want to follow your rules?
There are thousands of laws a business has to follow to comply with state and federal regulations and several of these laws are implemented in our Standards of Performance. LiveOps has to ensure that they stay in business and increase their clients’ rate. This can only be accomplished when the IC’s do an excellent job, follow the rules and have an upbeat attitude about it.
If you can not understand that and if you want special treatment, then I suggest you start your own business in a different field. For instance, why don’t you start your own house cleaning business and let’s see if you will increase your monthly salary while doing a crabby job, not following any rules and complaining how unfair life is.
First of all none of you are lawyers. Secondly you don't own your own business.
secondly if different agencies can not agree - How do you know that Liveops did.
the judge doesn't care if you LIKE your job - He will be trying to determine if you are IC's being treated as employees.
This is about COMPLIANCE. Geez, what are you teaching your kids, that its ok as long as you like it. It doesn't matter to you that a company COULD be taking advantage of you - as long as you have a flexible schedule?
Quit thinking that the ladies are out for a big payout - they won't and if the judge awards them settlement. Dept of Labor will give anyone associated as IC with Liveops 'back pay'. Whether you like it or not.
You know what they say about assumptions. And before you claim to KNOW anything. Fedex, teletec, and West THOUGHT the same......
I love Liveops, my only concern is why is there only 1 Black AF amongst thousands of Black agents working for Liveops??? I think the NAACP and or Al Sharpton should be notified and see about this virtual world of work and equal rights for all agents!!
I don't think that there are that many agents, of any color, that are all that anxious to be AF's. After seeing what goes on, would you want to be one? It's not as glamourous or cushy of a position as some agents might feel. If anyone thinks the agents are underpaid, AF's are way underpaid and they ARE employees. I think some of them just like having the title and the false sense of power that it gives them because they are from small towns and have never worked anywhere else or done much else than being in the house with their children, which I am not saying is not important, but it is not the same as being in a working environment outside of the home.
African American agent get over it, I know at least 100 African American agents that work for LO so don't go shooting that prejiduce crap here...I don't think anyone that's heard it a MILLION times wants to hear it anymore...IMO you're full of it!!!
I got locked out at LO today, no notification wwhatsoever, had commits scheduled can't log in says my session has expired. No one will contact me and I have unprocessed invoices to collect on. I can't read e-mails process invoices or anything whatsoever. Where do I sign up for the lawsuit? I hope it becomes a class action suit.
One of the downsides of worked as an independent contractor is the fact that you are responsible for your own fed, states and self-employment tax (currently $15.3%). Some of you may or may not know that the employer absorbs many costs associated with being an employee among which are: State and Federal Unemployment Insurance, Workers Compensation Insurance, Employer portion of Social Security and Medicare.
So, right now, LiveOps passes the "cost of employment" onto you as an independent contractor. If they are forced to change your employment status to employee, you may see a drop in business or lower pay because they will have to make up for those costs somehow.
Since I am an attorney I can give u some inside information. This battle between employee and independent contractor is a nationwide trend.
The law is somewhat clear on what makes someone an independent contractor and what makes someone an employee. If u are being told when to work and how to work - then u are an employee. In my opinion, liveops agents are technically employees and not independent contractors.
I suggest this for one reason only - when a customer calls, you do not have the option of selling the items the way YOU want to sell them.
I understand that with the affinity offers, the FTC regulates what must be said - therefore, being required to read the affinity offers word for word would not make you an employee.
What DOES make you an employee is being told that you MUST read the script for the non-affinity offers word for word. THIS is a great example of Liveops regulating HOW you do your work. If anything, the scripts should be a SUGGESTION and NOT required.
THE IRS RULE that verifies this: A general rule is that you, the payer, have the right to control or direct only the result of the work done by an independent contractor, and not the means and methods of accomplishing the result.
To put this simply, if you are Liveops Agent, you should NOT be told how to sell the product - it should only be suggested and never required that you follow the scripts.
IRS RULE: A general rule is that anyone who performs services for you is your employee if you can control what will be done and how it will be done.
Based on this IRS Rule, Liveops agents are employees because they are TOLD what will be done and how it will be done - right down to the script!
In addition, you can get slipped for certain things you do as you are performing your work which would make you an employee and not an independent contractor.
A court will look at ALL of the factors on how Liveops agents are treated by Liveops to determine if agents are employees or independent contractors.
On the plus side, Liveops agents do have to "invoice" Liveops, agents do get to choose their own schedule and work "when they want" within reason (i.e., if you are not working at least 10 hours a week u could be dumped).
To make it easier for you to understand, consider this:
Most real estate agents are independent contractors....why....
because they are not told what to say to clients who come in inquiring about property....they only get paid a commission on what they sell....and they are not told they HAVE to work 9-5
Liveops agents ARE told what they have to say to customers, Liveops agents get paid based on call-time (NOT SALES MADE) and Liveops Agents are expected to work at least a minimum number of hours per week or they are "let go".
It's pretty clear that Liveops agents are employees. Liveops doesn't have to change much and will be able to make a smooth transition to being an employer rather than independent contractor.
Having just joined LO, I must say I don't understand what all the hype is about.
I read ALL the material given Me, I signed up as an IC. I want to be an IC because it allows Me to choose My own hours and work in My pajamas if I choose. I truly don't care how much I have to follow a script. The scripts are there so that we, the IC's, will know how to ACT when speaking to someone on the phone. If we were left to our own devices MANY of us would not know what to do.
Question; Do YOU think you can set up exactly what the client wants YOU to say when ACTING on their behalf?
Personaly I think that perhaps 5% of those who work as IC's doing phone contact, would be able to do as I questioned?
I know this... I have a high IQ and am quite educated, 12+ years of college, and I don't think I could do it.
So get a grip on reality here. They signed up to be IC's and they couldn't do the work for some reason or another, and now they are CRYING.
Peace
I just started working for LO and I am an IC. When I first started (taking calls) I was so ready to start my own business. I was under the impression that I could one day add someone to my business after they were certified. I recieved a pb message saying that I could not have anyone work for me and I was planning on opening a center just for my business to really get it going. I was disappointed. Then I recieved an email from Tim Whippel and it was talking about the Lawsuit so I googled it and I read everything that people has been writting about it and my personal feelings behind this is that if you dont do the job you dont get paid which I understand. My percentage was at a 100% on a friday on that Sat something must have happend and it dropped to a 64% I emailed my af as soon as I saw it and she wrote me back saying that it will be fixed and it never was. By the time she wrote me back I commited 50 times and was back at 100. I was getting like 1 call an hour and each call was about 2 min. I was under the impression that the calls was going to come back to back and that my business was going to be going great. But just like everything that seems to good to be true. Since January I made $200.00 and put in more than 200 hours. Also about that schedule; It sucks!!! When Rollout hits everyone is on there computer and when those commits light up that pretty green in less than a sec they are gone. I click on one and someone takes it right from up under me. So I have to stay on the schedule just so that I can pick the hours that I want to work. I am sure that the three women that are suing has a reason they must felt dupped or something. Anyone that is making a comment or just reading everyone elses and you took calls for LO those scripts are highway robbery and if the company has material like that confusing the customers to the point where they dont even know what their ordering that is something else that is a little fishy. Even when I recieve my email to start the working it was weird the letters are misspelled and most companies that do that has something to hide. I wish the women luck I just want these companies to stop taking advantage of people who are willing to work then to loose their business to make them (companies) richer.
If I am not a IC then someone needs to tell me so. I was hired as an IC and if someone tells me different then I too will do what I have to. No one is going to pull the covers over my eyes. I am too done with these companies.
Maybe it would be better if I was an employee for them hopefully this lawsuit will push for that.
I agree with the first comment, 1) because, I worked the PH line and thought this was ridiculous. However, instead of just getting the FREE DR blocks they ended up giving [some] agents a 30 commit schedule and now I am a full DR agent and not PH since I dropped PH. But, I do OB as well. I love LO but, I still agree with the lawsuit...LO messed up and they are trying to weed out anyone who does agree with the lawsuit...I am however, not associated with the lawsuit, do not live in GA but, have contact with the lawyers there. I think that they do need to adjust their pay schedule...if $.25/min is not going to change that's totally fine but, the pay for sitting on your butt doing nothing when the call volume is low (because they over book a commit or because it's a weekday) or we are reading countless training materials and modules...If you want more calls you have to know certain products and some have quizzes. We should be paid for each successful quiz, in the least. At least I have an interview with another WAHJ. I refuse to work with West...they just scammed you anyhow and their scripts and tech support was awful when I started with them a couple years ago.
I guess we will have to wait and see how it will go. But, I hope LO loses in the aspect they screwed up and left all that wide open space for misinterpretation, as previously stated in another comment.
They can't give us our state's minimum wage because then other agents would be sueing for getting paid more. It just all depends on the agent and how lazy they are and if they want to work enough to make their potential. I'm definitely going to have to sit on the fence on this one because there are some great points with the lawsuit (ie the 30 min blocks with 1 or less calls and the training material).
Man you guys are so blind. I have worked at liveops way to long and I think they are going down hill fast. Ever since the new CEO took over it all went to hell. You can get slips for things out of your control. They say they have no set rule on how many before let go but usually its three of the same one in 6 months and your gone. You can get one for a long call that hangs up. Or misdisposition a stupid script by accident wrong. Or better yet get one for missing 50% of your commits in a given week if an emergency comes up. I hope liveops loses and I do work for them and I would prefer a set pay and be an employee. Being an IC sucks cause they dictate how much money you can make. If you cant shove magazines and clubs down the customers throats then you wont get calls. Shouldnt the product itselve be more important. Its not with liveops. We are just another number to them. Oh dont get me started on who you go to if you need to get an issued resolved. Af are worthless. Yes they are employees that only make 10hr when they start out. I for one am fed up with the crap they are pulling. You would think that working from home wouldnt be stressful but it is. As for pizza hut west use to have them and with them you made alot more money. Liveops barely pays their workers a dime.
I work for LO and LOVE IT! I do not have a company uniform, drive a company car, I can't even say I work for LO on a call. So what would make me an employee? The scripts are reqired so that idiots out there don't spout some lies just to boost sales. In my opinion, the scripts are "suggestions" as I can add a little "flare" of my own, per SOP, without getting slipped. The mags and affinities are federally regulated, as others mentioned, so there is no lee-way there. Bottom line: I LOVE WHAT I DO! From the comfort of my own home, I can work 1 hour or 50 per week and I am not reqired to work a set minimum. I can work 9-5 or 5-9, what ever I want. These idiots are going to ruin a REALLY GOOD THING for the vast majority that love what we do. I really hope that the lawsuit gets thrown out, though I doubt it will with all the $$ to be made from it. Sad, really.
BTW, do any of you realize how many customers tell me "thank goodness you speak clear English! I hate calling overseas and can't understand what is being said!" In response, I simply say, "thank you, we are 100% AMERICAN OWNED AND OPERATED!" (In my southern drawl that gets complimented no less!)
I have recommended LO to single mothers and married mothers that want to be closer to their children, and ALL but one are still there today. That one, in my opinion, couldn't handle the flexibility. She is now working outside the home and wishes she could go back, but she was given chance afte chance to perform to standards and did not. Oh well. We make our beds........
Also, no one has mentioned the tax benefits of being a IC. There are many advantages to having a home office. Just ask any CPA. Mine did a bang up job for me at tax time, and all are legitimate. I agree with one comment, boo hoo! Cry me a river!
I KNOW that we have a good thing at LO and really hate to see it go from sugar to vinegar. If ther is anyone that we can give our voice as agents to, in favor and support of LO someone please post it.
Why are there so many comments about what others have to say instead of just giving direct viewpoints on the subject matter?
It seems as though an opinion about what others say is not as useful as looking at LO, the main issue here.
Working at home is a great concept with many advantages. However, right is right and wrong is wrong no matter where or who it is.
I worked long and very long hours to earn money with LO. If my system break down due to local storms, power company failures, tech stuff, etc I had to suffer the consequence to reap the benefit of working from home.
Trying to be full time with LO is almost impossible due to these uncontrollable events. When you are finally up and running again your percentages may have dropped such that you will take forever to get back to taking calls on a regular basis. Uncommitting by phone is not always a success.
I strongly oppose the negative, abusive and violent climate LO creates between customer and agent by insisting that agents continue offering pages of upsells even when customers make clear that they are on their way to or already at work and HAVE TO GET OFF the phone, request to conclude because baby crying in back ground, food on the stove needing attention, feeling sick and need to lay down or how about when cu just repeatedly explain they just do not what to hear any more. I cringed and developed knots every time I had to disregard what even appeared to be a legitimate request from any customer who should be entitled to purchase what they called for and attend any need they showed concern for.
Sincerely,
Respect For Others
I have worked for LIVEOPS for a year. I have read all of the comments. Everyone is so right. The folks who LOVE IT and say nothing negative are FULL!!! I like liveops and it has give me a great opprotunity to make me some extra money. I have had a lot of friends to work for them and some of them would not work for only 2 weeks or less and get kicked out and this was when it was 60 days. They call the AF and never get a response. They send emails to all the various emails that they give you to reactivate and they tell you to email someone else or even apply using a difft email. I had one relative who was inactive for 13 days and deactivated and told that she did not work enough to reactivate. LOL...I got my first slip after a week because of a affnity offer because i missed the word (or)... It took me a week of harrasing calls to get my AF to reactivate me. Meanwhile it was a sunday and I had at least 20 commits. They deactivated me while I was in the middle of the call. The VCC booted me out. I missed 18 commits. My % went way down. I got another slip for missing more than 50% of commits. I tried to to get back on but my AF never would call me back. I finally spent countless calls back to back and she answered. After that my calls sucked. I had to fight my way up again and still no where near where I was. I still have not got any other clients but DR and Lifelock. I have asked my AF and she claims she put me on the list. I have been agent for over a year and my % stays at 100 or 98. I totally believe unless you kiss your AF butt and go to all the odd hour team meeting where they talk about nothing and all of the IC that have been there for 10 years talk over everyone then she will not work for you. She will ignore you. A few sundays ago my phone calls were coming in back to back and my phone would disconnect and then reconnect on its own. Usually if you disconnect you have to manually do this on your own. My did this for 15 minutes. I emailed AF and also Vcc to AF in room. Well ya know what happened..I got a SLIP for tooo many pauses although it never happened and i was not even touching the pc. I have gottom slips rejected because whoever is listening to the calls do not even no what they are listening to. LO is a good company and they do give people as myself an oppro. to make $ while at home if needed. The scripts are a embarrasment. I feel so bad to read them at times. And the talkalong slips. You get a long call talking about the product and the customer takes forever and had 80 questions and then on last page says nevermind. You get a slip for talking too long and no order. In the description it says if you are talking about other things besides the product. Me and the caller talked about nothing else but the product. I got slipped. LOL...They are a good company but the AF's are rude to people they do not no. LO does make rules as they go. You never no what will happen. When I log in...I always am in fear of being deactivated because of how I have been treated. I have worked customer service in a call center for a major wireless company for 10 years and can do the job but the scripts and how LO treats you is liek you are stupid and cant read. The scripts are so so misleading. These companies like Hip Hop Abs and Slim and 6...NCures. SCAMS. The scripts are so OMG!!! I ordered myself from the companies. Did you know even if you do not do the one pmt and get your free workout that the workout is on the DVD anyway..LOL...Maybe that has nothing to do with liveops...but WOW...I can see these agents issues who are suing. I would not because I have a job already but I do LO on weekends and nites. I put in about 20 hours or more a week but do not get paid 20 hours worth. I spend countless time waiting for the schedule for nothing and having to stalk it most of the time especially when they hire new people. These agents prob put in many hours for LO and then screwed by them as soon as they closed thier eyes. We are not perfect and these scripts...I work in CS and the company i work for is the #1 wireless company. I am overwheled with calls everyday from every kind of customer and there is so much info sometimes you forget. At LO if you mess up you get deactivated instead of trained. I can goof up at work because of a change in policy and get better training because things always change. LO is a good place for folks but some people need to realize on this forum that liveops has been very sneaky. My sister send 3 money orders with confirmation and signature for her $30. They said they never got any of them. LOL...We called and called. The girl ansering the phone said there is no one to talk to. $90 is gone and the mo were deposited. After 4 weeks of calling and emailing she got a response in email form. LOL. Not a phone call but a email. Giving her her logins and 7 days to get 30 calls. LOL...They are a trip. Some people who have had it good then thats good but you also can not assume the person suing did something wrong. There are a lot of flaws and the lawsuit may or maynot fix them. We will see. Hope for the best because some people depend on the money
I am a Liveops Agent who was so excited six months ago when I started. Told family and friends what an idea job I had. But I found that not to be true.
I have been locked out of the schedule as well. I will be joining the lawsuit if given the opportunity. My reasons is that I am a very qualified Customer Service Rep. Even though the AF's said we are not doing Customer Service.
But I did not join the team at Liveops to sell magazines even though I did my job and sold many magazines and club offers and had five stars but they were taken away.
All of you new agents that think your hard work will be rewarded is sadily mistaken.
I have sold many products that are on the performance page but have not received credit for them. My % has been the same for months even though I continue to sell the products as well as the upsells.
I will not comment on the AF's.
I never thought six months ago that I would feel this way. I wonder if Liveops knows what intergity means.
If a customer calls for a partical product and order it you are not satisfied. But you or me cannot force a customer to take magazines or clubs offers if they do not want them.
Why is it that when you make five stars for a product that it is taken away and then your profermance is based on what you did not sell instead of what you did sell?
All of you agents that have your high hopes get ready, get ready for your hopes of been successful will be dashed no matter how many hours you work committed or uncommitted. I know because I was working 40 - 50 hrs a week just to try and pay my bills. Now I am up a creek without a peddle because I am blocked out of the schedule. The AF told me because someone else click on the commit when I did but mind you it turned blue and then at the blink of an eye it was gone. I know its in the program for some of us.
My final thought is, if you want to make an honest living doing work from home find you an honest company because Liveops is not it. Whether you follow the SOP or not you are not going to make the $'s for long, for if you start doing to good they will block you from scheduling talk time and tell you that you can always work uncommitted. Why would you want to do that when you may not received call if you are committed?
Thanks to everyone for their comments, and to ejobtips.com. I've been seriously considering the LiveOps work for a few weeks, and these posts, especially by those who've come aboard recently, let me know what to really expect as a LiveOps newbie.
Such a shame--such wonderful potential being wasted. Unfortunately it's the same tired story in the United States of Capitalism: A company experiences dazzling promise, goes public, and soon becomes a slave to the usual ridiculous pressure to fulfill meaningless earnings expectations for shareholders, while ignoring the true, "bottom line:" the experience of the people DOING the work and of the customers buying the product. When will we evolve our business practices? It's so tiring.
With their boatload of apparently experienced people as management and advisors, such basic bullshit as reps who can't get their questions answered and customers cursing you out because you have to harangue them with up-sells should be nowhere on the radar screen. People are going to get just as sick of the up-sells as they are of being patched to someone in India.
Well, hopefully they'll get their priorities straight soon and don't blow it. So many intelligent people are out here, willing to work--for a company that is run fairly and sensibly.
Good Luck to all who are still searching for the right fit.
Yikes--upon further reading, it appears LiveOps is not even a public company, so what excuse can they have for running things so poorly lately? ...I found in an article on their site, from January, that they receive 3500 apps per WEEK (!!) and accept only 5%. So, perhaps they can be a lot more choosy now, and feel justified in dropping anyone who in any way isn't deemed to be pulling in the top $$ with each call.
I know this much ....while everyone is suing and complaining...I hope I still have a place to make my quarters....
This is a great opportunity for those of uss who want to work at home...How can you complain about making thousands of dollars a month without even leaving your home, barely lifting your fingers...saving gas money amongst other monies as well...Give me a break. And there has to be rules somewhere or else one day LO would wake up on mothers day and find only 20% of their agents who arent mothers taking calls ...im sure that wouldnt work well for anyone...Hah...I guess I should sue them for kicking me out of the forums...lol...you guys or gals break my heart...Sometimes LO can be a pain...but they are more helpful than they are a burden to those who cant afford daycare or transportation...or for those who cant leave their homes for what ever reason. and I wont post anonymous...like u other cowards...Say your name Say your name...or don't say anything at all
It’s called confidentiality not coward... duh. Do AFs' route calls to agents? YES or no. A person is not making money (quarters) if they have a five star rankings on most of their programs, and at 100% on their commits, but after four and a half hours of sitting by the phone they have only made $1.25. What if you commit during a time calls will be coming in for a program that you are rank above the top on, but never receive a call for that program? Oh, and how would you view LiveOps if one minute before your commit end you get a ten second call where someone got the wrong number and this happens for each commit you committed to? Independent Contractor, what a joke! Are you as an Independent Contractor given information as to how calls are routed to your business? yes or NO? Are customers for some programs sitting on hold waiting to talk to an agent, while a group of agents are sitting in available? Are calls routed to the best agents first or are calls routed only to certain agents, while other agents sit like stupid fools waiting for calls that the “router(someone has to control it, through data entry, AF, etc...)” determine you will never get? And why is it that customers can’t hear you, but when you are not taking LiveOps calls, and you make test calls to your phone, your volume is so loud, you almost bust your ear drums? As an Independent Contractor, do you have the right to know if you are receiving test calls that are geared to bring your ranking down? For example: If you received ten calls from LiveOps AFs’ with affinity offers added to the program and they decline the affinity offers on each test call, your ranking will drop. And if you are one of their precious peas that they want to take calls for that program, then they buy all the up-sells and affinity to keep your ranking high. Don’t you as an Independent Contractor have the right to know this if this is going on? How can you be penalized for something you have no control over? It’s like a dog chasing his tail. You’re waiting for something you will NEVER get. Repeat, NEVER get! It’s called false hope. Are you being used, because LiveOps clients see that they have the agents to take their call, even if agents are not getting the calls? I pray that the two people that sued win and win BIG!
Liveops - what a joke. I spent a year trying to make that business work.
Many people on here nailed it. The scripts are rediculous. If you don't shove enough magazines down people's throats you are put on reduced call routing. Your 7 day schedule is taken away so you are limited to 4 days. Your call volume drops to nothing - and you sit in front of your computer for hours and often make $2/hour.
Then there's the schedule. You sit by your computer patiently waiting for the slots to be released and within 2 SECONDS everything is GONE! Sure, you can work uncommitted, and maybe make $2 in 3 hours - maybe.
The scripts are rediculous, misleading, and you must totally ignore the customer when they say "I don't want to hear anymore!"
The AF's are often times smart@ss people who love to try to humiliate you and make you look stupid for asking a question (not all - but some are).
The slips are another issue already covered accurately here.
As for whoever commented about "making thousands every month" - I call BS. I don't believe it for a minute.
Up until February of this year I actually managed to make a steady $10+/hour. Then everything changed. They hired an overload of agents and the call volume dropped to nothing.
The whole idea of being able to work at home and make a living with Liveops is a pipe dream - and I for one hope they get taught a lesson on how to treat their workers - whether they are "employees" or "IC's".
For anyone thinking about pursuing a career with Liveops, my advice would be to save yourself the time, trouble, and heartache.
However, if you want to put in full time effort to make $400-$500 per month and be stressed out continuously while you read 5-7 pages of long 3-5 paragraph upsells and THEN be taken to another 2-3 pages of Affinity offers (trying to trick people into magazines and other "free" offers that have a $19.95/monthly fee after 30 days), then by all means, Liveops could be just what you have been searching for.
I wish I could have found a post like this before I ever decided to become affiliated with Liveops.
I could rant forever, but there is not point, I'm just venting.
You people that are still Liveops agents are idiots. Let's teach Liveops a lesson? Yeah...you'll see the jokes on you, should we change to employee status. And...if you can't get dr, you are probably not good enough and maybe is sour grapey time for you. Grow up and go get a job at McDonalds. I heard they're hiring. Go fill up your car for four bucks a gallon, get dressed in your flattering non-humiliating uniform and be prepared to get cursed out by customers and treated like crap from your uneducated supervisor who may or may not have teeth. Then deposit your measly paycheck that was measly to begin with even before your taxes were taken out, for your convenience, of course, so that the government can use your money. And don't forget not to claim any work-related expenses on your taxes. Then, enjoy the ride home in your beaten up Chevy Cavalier that is in desperate need of a tune-up you can't afford. This way, you'll be able to truly compare the two options...wah or woth. When you're done comparing, y'all come back and repost your outlook on the subject now, ya hear?
Um…Live Ops is not as wonderfull as everyone is making it out to be here! It is an OK oppourtunity. It can be turned into something good through hard work…but you usually spend alot of time waiting for calls than you do taking calls. And when you have a problem with not getting paid for the work you have done you find out how little they really do care for you…you cant even speak with some one about it….a communications company that you can not communicate with…OMG….LMAO…..you will get stone walled and be blamed for the mistakes even after you have proven that your AF made the mistake and then get lied to about your being sent…it has been two months since working for them and I have not seen a dime of what I have earned…they owe me over 500$
ao how do i get in on the lawsuit...cuz they are in breech of contract, as far as I am concerned. I had a person in thier legal dept tell me today that she does not care about me...had my AF tell that since she has never had problem with pay, she doesnt understand why I am so upset...I responded cuz I am not getting paid Einstien and it is rude to brag to that you are!!
LiveOps is great. If anyone is dissatisfied, instead of suing...just quit. If you want to be an employee, then go find a job described as such. My experience is that when I fulfill my part, then the calls come just fine. Bottom line...it works for some and others just need to find something else.
So what about the recent issue of just dropping people of DR Outbound calls without warning. If we are independent agents why don't we have the say in how long we decided to certified for a program. Of course we have 0% conversion we are not certified to take calls yet so we get dropped completely without warning. At least give us 2 weeks to bring it up and then be removed. AF's are a joke in LO's you have to report to them but they do nothing, they are just a block in the road so you don't bother anyone else. Agents also can't get ahold of Tim Whipple unless he happens to come into a room while you are logged in but be warned watch what you say. Slips happen when you don't agree with LO's. So they either need to make independent contractors employees or stop treating them like employees.
I really believed in LiveOps, I was so excited about leaving my full time job and concentrating exclusively on "MY HOME BASED Business" My "Open for Business" sign was up every free moment I had, from the time I got home from work until I had to go to bed. The calls have slowed down,no, let me correct that, the calls have stopped. I might get one of those calls for "free information" that I can complete in 60 seconds during my 30 minute commit. I'm seriously making $3.00 an hour. Now please don't tell me I'm not good at this because nothing could be further from the truth. I worked in a call center for a well known telephone company and I had awards and accolades coming out the wazoo. I did inbound and outbound, I know my stuff. There is something going on with LiveOps, I can't quite figure out what it is. I love this job and I am thankful for the opportunity to work from home. I am going to try to hang on for as long as I can because as I said in the beginning I really believed in them. I want to start believing in them again. This job is like looking at an old run down house and seeing the potential it has. LiveOps has the potential to be something great, there's just something out of kilter right now.
Kitty said,
I think people want LiveOps to be more than it is. First of all this is not an easy job, its easy to get started, but its not easy to succeed.
I've been contracting with LOs since 2005, I've gotten exactly out of what I've put into it. When I've slacked, I've lost ground, when I've busted ass I've made money.
I also have a real estate license, and its true there is a difference between being a contractor in real estate and being a contractor at LOs. If LOs doesn't out and out lose this lawsuit, I think they will have to make some changes. But this is the thing, if the changes involve having agents think for themselves and only using the scripts as a "call guide", most of them are not going to be able to do it.
Only those who can think outside the box, and for themselves are going to be able to sell successfully and within the guidelines set by LOs clients. There are agents already doing this, and so those agents I would think, would still have contracts IF LOs loses the lawsuit. All the rest of them won't, and they won't have jobs either. The margin just isn't there. Those contracts will be sent out to a lower bidder in another country. I know PA has a minimum wage of over $7/hr now, I doubt thats going to work versus a country where people will work for $7.00 a day. Or even versus another state where the minimum wage is only as high as the federal govt requires.
So personally, I hope LOs wins this and wins big. Because I sure would miss going there to earn money that I so desperately need, every day. And I would miss all the brilliant, talented, funny people that I've met there, and consider friends, even though we've never met in person.
I worked for Liveops about 18 months and stopped about one year ago. I simply got burned out and chose to do something else. Although I had few complaints and generally had a good experience at LO...I'm not going to hate on other people who had a different experience. The sad truth is...I know of many people who worked for -- and were highly critical of LO. Not everybody who has a beef with them are simply disgruntled, ingrates with an ax to grind. Much of the criticism seems legitimate. Just because YOU had a good experience with LO doesn't mean everyone has. As a poster said earlier, how well you liked LO has nothing to do with it. If a judge deems that LO broke the rules...so be it.
A follow-up for "tired of idiots"
I see, you perhaps are the ONLY person (at least in your mind) that has ANY smarts about you.
BUT as I read ALL the comments posted here I have concluded that you are perhaps the ONLY idiot that has made a comment.
First of all, after having worked for LO, I would rather work at McD's now. And as far as I can see it's your POS 74 Pinto that is in need of a tune up, OH and new tires, @hole.
Get real, there is NOTHING cool about working for LO. They are totaly ripping people off. Just because 1 or 2 or even 3 of the people who work there are making a little money doesn't mean EVERYONE is. I was a hard worker who followed ALL the guidelines and I was simply ripped of with a small volume of calls and very few sells. OH and I am a very good salesman. so heres the deal, get your LAZY @ss up out the chair (just because you are skeeeered to wok at a real job) go out and work for a living. Your mother makes better money at the "900" line than you will ever make.
I work for LO, and I love it! I have been there for 5 years, long enough to Know Jeanette in the LO forum, all too well........this woman commited fraud...and when she got caught, went after LO....I remember the day she sent me E mail telling me what she was doing...this CHICK is not ok.....and trust me LO has documentation...you all can speculate all you want, but I KNOW what happened, and I watched it happen, if any jury finds in her favor, I will lose all faith in the law......
Ha ha! Liveops WON! AND the independent contractors who filed the suit have to pay Liveops' attorney fees and costs as well!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
they annoy me , they refuse to tell me WHO and When contact was made, just terminated me. I have asked about 10 times already. they are unreal.
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Your question was not misunderstood at all. I have provided you with all of the information that will be provided to your business.
As mentioned earlier, I have researched this violation once again and “a caller or client” was found to be contacted. This is a violation of the Independent Contractor Agreement.
This breach of contract stands.
Due to your business's breach of contract, your business is ineligible to re-contract with LiveOps in the future.
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